Equity In Every Drop - A Waterkeeper Alliance Podcast

Thomas Hynes: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to Equity In Every Drop. We are very lucky to be joined by two great guests today, both joining us from the Bahamas. First, we have Rashema Ingraham, Bimini Coastal Waterkeeper and Executive Director of Waterkeepers Bahamas. We are also joined today by Casuarina McKinney-Lambert, executive director of the Bahamas Reef Environment Educational Foundation, or BREEF, and both of these organizations are affiliated with a larger Our Islands, Our Future, which exists to unite Bahamians who are passionate about protecting the environment.

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: It's great to be here today. Thank you for having me. It's wonderful to be here with you talking about the Bahamian Ocean.

Rashema Ingraham:Thanks so much, Tom. Very excited to be here and ready to get into the meat of our discussion. 

Thomas Hynes: Thank you so much for joining us today and being with us on the podcast. 
And I think what would be interesting. Now, I know both of you and I'm familiar with your organizations, but I just for the [00:01:00] sake of the listener, why don't we just give a thousand foot overview of your work and your organization.

And then maybe we could talk about Our Islands, Our Future after that. But Casuarina I've met you more recently, so we'll start with you cause I know Rashema a little bit better. So tell me a little bit about BREEF and then we'll hear from Rashema and then you can maybe both tell us about Our Islands, Our Future. 

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: Thank you, Tom. BREEF is the Bahamas Reef Environment Educational Foundation and our mission is to promote the Bahamian marine environment that sustains our way of life. So really highlighting the integral role that the ocean plays in pretty much every aspect of life in the Bahamian archipelago.

We are intrinsically linked to the ocean through fisheries, through tourism, through recreation and through transportation. And this organization has been around for 30 years. We actually celebrated our 30th anniversary last year and are thrilled to work with like minded, [00:02:00] partners in the public and private sector and similar organizations like Waterkeepers that are interested in protecting the ocean for current and future generations

Thomas Hynes: That sounds amazing. And just as a fellow citizen of earth, I thank you for your work. Rashema, tell me a little bit about what you do, even though you've told me many times before but for the listeners Let's see. Let's hear a little bit about you 

Rashema Ingraham: I am the Bimini Coastal Waterkeeper, but also the executive director for Waterkeepers Bahamas. For many people, who may not know, the Bahamas is a chain of islands, it's an archipelago, and on three of the major islands there's a Waterkeeper presence on Bimini, Grand Bahama, and in Providence. Everybody is familiar with Nassau. All three of those islands we do a lot of engagement with the community.

We report out on water quality and then focus a lot of our efforts around the swimmable, fishable, drinkable model that Waterkeeper Alliance [00:03:00] has built globally. And that also gives us the opportunity to work with partners like BREEF to talk about some of the national issues that are important to us to our livelihood as well as the industries that help to sustain us and so getting people in the water, getting them to understand the relationship between people and the water and how it connects to us.

How it connects to our culture, how it connects to our livelihoods, and how it will help to build our future is a lot of what we do, but bringing in those aspects of fisheries, aspects of us being able to have access to clean and healthy water in our communities, in our schools, and in our homes, so a lot of our work is centered around those elements of being a waterkeeper, which we all are.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And you both mentioned the island settings, many islands [00:04:00] are there until you mentioned three? Are there more than that? Is it like a larger archipelago, is it just three? 

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: So we talk about the 700 islands of the Bahamas, but that doesn't include the Rocks and the Keys. Casuarina is she is also on another island, which is Eleuthera. So when you think about the major islands that a lot of people are familiar with, like Andres, Abaco, Eleuthera, Exuma, Inaugural Grand Bahama, you're talking about almost 20 of those major islands, but not including those Rocks and Keys.

Which can bring it to hundreds or even a thousand, thousands of rocks and keys that make up the archipelago of Bahamas. 

Thomas Hynes: Wow. I live in New York city and we have 25 islands, which is a lot, but this pales in comparison, obviously, in a number of ways. 

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: we often talk about the islands of the Bahamas, and as Rashema said, there's several thousand when you count the rocks and keys, but ultimately we really are a large ocean nation in addition to being a small island developing [00:05:00] state 95 percent of the territory of the Bahamas is actually underwater.

So these islands are popping up generally very low lying islands throughout the archipelago. But we stretch all the way from Florida past Cuba and Haiti and the Dominican Republic to the Turks and Caicos. And our country actually makes up over 35 percent of the coral reefs of the entire wider Caribbean region.
So it's really the ocean that makes the Bahamas so incredibly special.

Thomas Hynes: So this is a good maybe this is a good place to transition to learning more about Our Islands, Our Future, and how these organizations that you've already described ladder up to this Is it coalition or however you describe it?

Why don't you each tell me a little bit more about that and the impetus for that organization, the mission for that organization and what you would like people to know about it.

Rashema Ingraham: Yes. Thanks for that question, Tom. Knowing that we are an ocean nation and then so much [00:06:00] of what we do and who we are as a people depend on the health of our ocean, We saw the need to petition for and advocate for the Bahamian people to protect our oceans from fossil fuels or any potential oil drilling activities that may have happened.
We were made aware that there were going to be ongoing activities for a test drill site. In an area that was nearby to a marine protected area, or a national park at the time, and these conversations had been going on for many years, and even going back a bit further, we knew that there were some other, historic companies that came to the Bahamas to see if there was potential for oil production in the country in the 1950s and the [00:07:00] 1960s.

And even those companies didn't see the potential at the time. But most recently in the 21st century there was an oil company that had established itself. Bahamian-formed registered companies had built assets into those companies in a diversified structure who were looking at drilling for oil, not necessarily for the benefit of the Bahamian people, but for the benefit of their U.K. or . London Stock Exchange investors, those people who had invested in a London based organization, but drilling in Bahamian waters are looking to find Black gold in Bahamian waters and not having the people of the Bahamas benefit from that. And there was no need for us to benefit from that because the work that we did when we formed our islands our [00:08:00] future where we looked at what is the percentage of Bahamians who have direct or indirect jobs related to the ocean that didn't require much from us where we weren't polluting it, but we were taking enough from it in order to sustain ourselves and to sustain our businesses.

We saw where over 100, 000 Bahamians were impacted by jobs. Or businesses from the ocean on and then looking at the population of the Bahamas, where we're just a little over 300, 000 people. That's one third of the population who were saying that jobs in our livelihood depended on that. So we actively mobilized.
to say to the Bahamas government look at the results. Look at the stats. You have people who are saying to you, you need to stop, you need to rethink, you need to hear [00:09:00] what Bahamians are saying about the move to diversify the economy but diversify in a way where we're not going to be negatively impacted and our jobs and livelihoods won't be ruined for future generations. 

Thomas Hynes: And so you're saying there's a few things that just jump out to me. It's that one, some English company gets to reap all the economic benefits, but you get the downstream effects of exploratory drilling and all the pollution and all that.
So that's a terrible deal for one. And then If I have this right, basically a third of the population says, this is going to affect my livelihood. 

Rashema Ingraham: Not a third of the population saying that, but just the economic analysis that we were able to review said that one third of the population was dependent on oceans for their livelihood, whether it was through their businesses or work related. So [00:10:00] that, that's a significant number when you think about the entire Bahamas population.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah, absolutely. And this is like getting into I was, I wanted to get into the economics of it eventually. So I'm glad you brought it up early. Casuarina, do you have anything you want to add to this? I know you are also involved in this issue and involved in these organizations. Is there anything else that we should touch on with regards to our islands, our future?

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: Yes, I think it was a pretty terrifying moment for the Bahamas when we had the Stena IceMax ship powering across the Atlantic on its way to the Bahamas to drill an exploratory oil well. This was, we were tracking it. The BREEF  and Waterkeepers and the Our Islands, Our Future Coalition were tracking this ship as it made its way across the Atlantic and started drilling, as Rashema said, right next to two marine protected areas on the west side of Andrus, and really putting our whole country at risk.

This was a moment in history that we want to make sure never [00:11:00] happens again. We don't want to be in a situation where the whole future of our country is jeopardized. By a company coming in really without as far as we were able to tell adequate safeguards in place and doing something that's incredibly dangerous.

Everybody remembers Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, and that was also an exploratory well. So anybody who says, Oh, we're just checking to see what's down there. That's what they were doing at Deepwater Horizon as well. With catastrophic damage. And I remember when that disaster happened and we were worried that just as oil was washing up on the beaches of Florida and around the Gulf of Mexico from that spill we were worried that oil from that spill would make it over to the Bahamas.

So the oceans are certainly something that connect us. And were we to drill again in the Bahamas and have a disaster of that magnitude, it would affect not just the waters of the Bahamas, but also neighboring countries in particular Cuba and Florida. [00:12:00] Of course, Florida does already have a moratorium on drilling for oil and it would have been pretty horrendous if a spill originating just outside of Florida had an impact on their beaches and the Bahamas would be held responsible for that as well.
So there's a huge risk that we put ourselves at as a nation with very little potential positive benefit. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And I, and this is where I wanted to go eventually. So we're here now we're talking about it. So let's just jump into it. I think it's that economic push and pull and I and that's what really stands out to me about this. And you mentioned Florida and all of these places where people go to recreate and all of the money and industry and jobs.

That are tied into people like me coming from miserably cold places up north to get a little sunshine and fishing and everything else and, real estate and just opportunity costs and forget, even if the drilling goes well, and there's no environmental disaster and the money that comes with that, which [00:13:00] usually comes with that Just the industry and economic loss of tourism and fishing and everything else.
And I'm so glad to point that out because I just think that so much of the environmental movement, at large, is up against these economic forces saying you can be for the economy or it can be for the environment. And what I really appreciate about what you're saying is, this is.
Almost primarily an economic issue not only, or equal to the environmental issue is that this quote, unquote good for business.

We obviously know the threats that offshore drilling poses in the abstract, right? We all remember “Deep Water Horizon.” We don't want our beautiful marine environments and in some cases even our drinking water. We don't want any of these resources tarnished with an environmental disaster.
But what specific or acute threat does offshore drilling pose to the Bahamas? What's the Bahamas specific threat? Why is this really a bad idea [00:14:00] down in your area? And you're being polite again, so I'm going to have Casuarina go first this time, because you're both being so polite to one another.

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: Okay, thank you Tom. There's a number of specific threats for The Bahamas. Were we to embark on oil drilling and create this new industry that currently does not exist in our country. A big one is that we are in a hurricane zone. And we've already seen oil spills resulting from Hurricane Dorian.
Rashema is intimately familiar with this because that's the island where she lives on and is from. And there's still pollution resulting from a spill during a hurricane. So we're not in a great place to be doing something as sensitive as oil drilling. We're also one of the countries that is most vulnerable to climate change.
We are a low lying archipelago. The highest mountain, and we do call it Mount Alvernia, is on Cat Island in the [00:15:00] southern Bahamas, and it is 206 feet above sea level. So we are one of the most vulnerable countries in the world when it comes to climate change. Increased storms and hurricanes, sea level rise, damage to our natural resource protective barrier, which are our coral reefs and mangroves.

And it would be incredibly hypocritical to, on the one hand, be talking to the world about how vulnerable we are and how we need help in adapting to the threats that we are faced by climate change. Thank you very much. While on the other hand saying we're going to start an oil drilling program in our country.
So it's akin to being on a sinking ship and calling for help while at the same time drilling holes in our vessel and lighting our life jackets on fire. It really doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, we have an incredible opportunity to be a leader when it comes to climate action. [00:16:00] Already, we have been speaking out as a country on the world stage highlighting our vulnerabilities, really being a voice for small island states around the world.

And we also have an incredible opportunity to say no to oil drilling and say we're going to put a ban on oil drilling. This is to protect our future, but also to support people around the world who are also vulnerable to climate change.

Thomas Hynes: So let's get in the weeds a little bit about the ban. Why is it important? And I think I know the answer, but why is it important for the Bahamas to have a ban? Is it not just to take on one project as it comes? Why is the broader ban so important? And I'll go to Rashema for this one. 

Rashema Ingraham: For us, the ban is absolutely important because we talk about the Bahamas being an ocean nation. And if we are going to continue to keep that title of being an ocean nation, being one of the [00:17:00] most treasured islands. Or country islands in the world. We have to take very hard steps to ensure that happens, not just for us who are in the Bahamas today, but for Bahamians who are coming 50 or 100 years later, where they know that in 2024 there was foresight from the leaders of today who said that we want to keep this chain of islands as an ocean nation.
So we have to take those steps to ensure that we're not only taking those steps for today, but we're also thinking about the fact that currently there's so much that we are dependent on that comes from the ocean and for us to even consider oil drilling or any production where we've always said from our islands, our future that if you drill you spill, even if it's a test drill, there's going to be spilled.
And knowing that. There had [00:18:00] been an oil spill on Grand Bahama after Hurricane Dorian that really exposed a lot from and that was a small scale spill. So just imagine what I have in a role on that and how fast it moves and far it moves where if we look at the spill that occurred on land, it was somewhat contained.

And we still did not have the capacity for that. We don't have the emergency response resources or equipment to be able to manage an oil spill that's going to happen in the ocean. Especially where production may be involved. So not only are we looking at the the very limited resources that we would have to respond, we're also opening up our population and then the population of our neighboring countries, the public health issues, because now we have oil and waters traveling trans boundary now to other countries where public

[00:19:00] health now becomes an issue.
And so we need to advocate for the band and continue to do that. And remind our world leaders that we're not only doing it for us because we see the need in 2024, but we need our up and coming leaders to be able to understand the message behind it as well. 

Thomas Hynes: That's a great answer.

And I want to talk about where we are specifically, but just a few things in there that were so great. If you drill, you spill. I've never really heard that before. And it also sounds like not only are you keeping in mind the future generations and the benefits or I should say, removing those dangers for them.
But, when I think about fossil fuels. One of the things that we say here is that it's dangerous at every phase. It's dangerous at extraction. It's dangerous at transportation. It's dangerous at refining, and it's super dangerous when we combust it and use it. So you're not only you're not only looking out for future generations, but you're looking out for other communities, [00:20:00] too, and saying, let's not ship this across the ocean to some other community that's going to have to refine it and take that burden and bear that brunt.

So it's really remarkable and commendable that way. That you're throwing hands up that we're having no part of this. And, I've heard a lot of talk that it's important to be an international leader on this issue. And it's, and I think that's one of the examples of it that really shines through for me.
I want to talk a little bit about where we are today with this issue. I know that there's been a lot of moving parts, but take our listeners through where things are today with the government with public sentiment and anything else that you want to touch on and I'll throw it to you, Casuarina.

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: I think it's looking really positive. We're in a very positive situation. The company that did the exploratory well in 2021 applied for a renewal of their exploration licenses and they did not receive it. That was three years ago and they have still not received a renewal. [00:21:00] So that's very positive from an ocean conservation and livelihoods conservation perspective.
There is a growing awareness that our future needs to be powered in other ways and the Bahamas, and I'm so sorry for listeners who are tuning in from cold, rainy, wet places. But the Bahamas really is powered by the sun.

We, we are sunny. It is beautifully sunny outside. And I think it's so important for people to realize that we can be on the forefront of this transition away from fossil fuels. And we should be, we can be, and there's huge potential on so many different fronts. BREEF held a workshop last month. It was an extreme hangout local workshop, where we had students from several different islands in the Bahamas.
Rashema brought students from Grand Bahama, Waterkeepers, cadets. We had students [00:22:00] from Cat Island and from many schools in New Providence. The prime minister came and was the keynote speaker at our extreme hangout event that was titled a fossil fuel free Bahamas. And there's a growing awareness across all sectors from the young kids who were there to the university students to all the way up to the prime minister.

I believe that we are now faced with this amazing opportunity to transition away from fossil fuels and towards a renewable future. So I think we're in a really good place. As I mentioned before, it was really terrifying to have this ship barreling down towards us. We don't ever want to be in that situation again.
We don't want to be reactive to a company coming in and people putting our future at risk. And that's why a ban is so important. We need to be proactive. We have the opportunity to take that leadership, that moral leadership role and say, no, this is never going to happen in our waters. [00:23:00] 

Rashema Ingraham: Tom, I just also wanted to jump in there on that for a moment because it's very important to look at what was happening in the country. before Our Islands, Our Future, where the public knew about the oil company and their interests, but there was not a major public campaign on why moving away from allowing oil production or even drilling test sites.

Moving away from that was significant or how it was going to impact the people of the Bahamas. So we were a bit reactive at the time and causing an alarm for People to be watching the ship as it was coming across the Atlantic Ocean making them aware of the impact that a spill would have on our coral reefs and our seagrasses, the things that we boast about, because it has so much economic [00:24:00] value in its pristine state.

But Our Islands, Our Future has been able to mobilize campaigns where the community was a part of it, as well as action the government to look at some of the things that they as country leaders can do. When you look at the community involvement, having them sign on to petitions. Having them to sign on letters that we submitted to the Prime Minister at the time, who has since changed.
And then also writing letters to our Commissioner of the Freedom of Information Unit. And then prior to that, to our attorney general, so saying government Harris, some of the things that you can do to protect such a asset for the country and to move away from fossil fuels but then also for the community to be actions and making them aware of, by [00:25:00] education.

As Casuarina mentioned the workshop that we had But also setting up websites and staying involved on social media. None of that existed before Our Islands Our Future. So we've been really biting at the elephant for the last two and a half years. And really making an impact where there was no impact before Our Islands Our Future. 

Thomas Hynes: Wow. That's incredible. And, That kind of leads me. You began to answer my next question: what's the public’s take on this? Because, you're both so close to the issue and clearly such accomplished advocates and are thinking about this and in such huge important ways. What is the feeling? From everyday folks, 

Rashema Ingraham: When Our Islands, Our Future first launched I would say that there was a divide, almost a 50 50 split because the oil company at the time had done so much groundwork with being able to convince [00:26:00] Bahamians that they were actually going to have a major share percentage of earnings.
And so a lot of Bahamians were of that view that they were going to cash out and have hundreds of thousands of dollars in their bank accounts from whatever drilling was going to happen. But then you had the advocates for the environment who have really been doing research for many years spreading across many of.

Who were silently at the time, in my view trying to speak on behalf of the research that they were doing, as well as the educational opportunities that they were providing to interns and students who were taking their own steps to work in counteractive manner to what the oil company was doing on the ground but the dollar value behind their campaigns was not there.
So they did not have the dollar value that the oil [00:27:00] company had. So they were actually buying support from those communities that really needed that economic stimulation. That's very sad that they were really trying to buy that support, knowing that Bahamians weren't really going to benefit from oil.
And then now, moving to where we are today, where we've done So much work with radio shows, newspaper articles, really stating the facts and that's what we've been doing. We've been stating the facts really highlighting the risks involved and getting people to talk more about it in wider spaces where.
For, I think for about three months, the debate was whether or not we should Look at oil in our country. And I think we did a good job. I think we won that battle. We were able to convince the Bahamian people that we are and should be a fossil fuels free [00:28:00] country. Casuarina has said so many times we're powered by the sun.

I think that has stuck in so many people's heads and minds where when you talk about, Fossil fuels you're going to have somebody who says that we're powered by the sun. What about solar energy? So we've begun to really tackle that issue of us being focused more on our natural resources rather than on fossil fuels.

Thomas Hynes: And I would say you're doing a great job. You said you were doing a good job. I'm just going to go ahead and up you to great job. 

I just, I love how you said that, part of your outreach to the public was just presenting the facts and it's so clear to me that the facts are clearly on your side. Do you have a sense that public sentiment has shifted further in your direction? 

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: I think there is growing support for a ban on oil drilling in the Bahamas. A recent poll indicated that 85 percent of Bahamians are supportive of a full ban on oil drilling in our waters. Presenting the facts, highlighting the [00:29:00] economic argument against oil drilling and the economic argument in favor of protecting the critically important ecosystems, particularly coral reefs, mangroves and seagrass beds really resonated with the public and they recognize that the risks really aren't worth the potential paltry benefits. 

There is a growing understanding that these ecosystems are major sinks for blue carbon. So when we're thinking about mitigation, we're talking about reducing the amount of carbon dioxide we put in the atmosphere. Much of which ends up in the ocean and also increasing and helping restore the ecosystems that are absorbing carbon dioxide. Doing something as risky as drilling for oil that would jeopardize these seagrasses and mangroves would be quite frankly ludicrous.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. Talk about economic value, talk about value to [00:30:00] civilization.
It doesn't get much stronger than that.  

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: And it is worth pointing out that some of these ecosystems are already under threat from a number of different impacts. The mangroves in Grand Bahama. Rashema is very deeply involved in their restoration but these mangroves were damaged severely by the climate-fueled hurricane Dorian several years ago.

BREEF especially does a lot of work with coral reefs. And this past summer was the hottest summer on record. We had an underwater heat wave that you wouldn't notice when you're just looking at the beautiful blue ocean in the Bahamas but the water got hotter sooner. And for longer and higher temperatures, and this had catastrophic effects on our coral reefs.
So many of the coral reefs many of the corals out on the coral reefs died as a result of these elevated water temperatures due to climate change. And. The recovery [00:31:00] is likely to be challenged because next summer is likely to be very hot again. We're likely to have another underwater heat wave like we had last summer, again this coming summer.So we are already feeling these impacts of climate change, and it is certainly not in our best interest to stop it. To add to the problem instead of taking action to solve it. 

Thomas Hynes: No, of course not. So I want to, I maybe should have opened with this.
But we've talked a lot about what the issue is, where things stand. But I would like to just make it a little bit more personal here as we get towards the end of this session. This conversation. And I just ask you both plainly, why personally are you doing this work?
And we'll start with you Casuarina, and then we'll go to you Rashema.

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: I love the ocean. I love diving. I love fishing. I got put in the ocean when I was five days old And according to my parents i've loved it ever since and so it really has major [00:32:00] personal meaning for me, I now have a daughter who's 13, who is equally a passionate advocate. When she saw that we had embarked on oil drilling in the Bahamas, she wrote a letter to the prime minister at the time, and she said, you can't do this.

This is my future. Don't ruin my future. So I think having children is something that for me personally, It really makes it even more poignant the importance of fighting for this battle right now. And it's really the kids who are going to be feeling the impacts of what we do now.
And it's up to us to think about what legacy do we want to leave in the ocean around us.

Rashema Ingraham: For me a lot of the work that we do and we do it wholeheartedly is really connecting people to the water or to nature. But I really had to look at why it was important for me. And it was because I was connected to nature and to water through [00:33:00] my grandparents, and I've been connecting those same dots with my children and knowing that my grandparents appreciated it, they appreciated the mangroves, my grandfather spent many of his senior years on a little dinghy sailing around the bay in Bimini.
And through the mangroves and one of my cousins still talked about the story of sailing through the mangroves with Martin Luther King Jr. So it has always been a family trait to connect the water with the mangroves and being able to bring people to those places and getting them to appreciate it as much as I do personally is part of the reason why I continue on with this passion of mine.

Thomas Hynes: It's clearly on display and I, I just want to thank you both for all the work you're doing. And the, the tangible, like real applicable [00:34:00] work that you're doing and getting this ban up and running and just what it means also just symbolically for the rest of the world that, The taking a stand like this is not easy and probably wasn't as popular as 85 percent when you started.
But the proof is there and the facts are clearly on your side. I want to just ask if there's any way That listeners can learn more or what you would like. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want people to take away? We can mention some websites, we can push people in the right direction.
And I'll start with you this time. 

Rashema Ingraham: We know that the work does not end. Although we have shifted our campaign to push more for a ban on oil drilling, we've come a long way. We've been able to compile a very comprehensive pathway document that we have shared with national leaders as well as global leaders that really set the stage, the tone for how legislation [00:35:00] can help us get there, making it very easy for national leaders to have that roadmap to the ban. But having others write in letters to the editor, really connecting that pathway document to what our leaders need to do. And then looking at The fact that we have young people who are looking at us to do the right thing.
Strong letters to the editor, letters to the prime minister is really where we would need the public support.  

Thomas Hynes: Casuarina, anything to add there?  

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: I'm just very grateful for all the support that we've had in this Our Islands, Our Future campaign. And support from obviously people within our organizations within Waterkeepers Bahamas and the Waterkeeper Alliance and and the BREEF network, but also other entities, individuals, organizations, local businesses from especially the Bahamas, but also around the world who [00:36:00] have been supporters of this coalition and have helped us.
And some of these are sort of niche support. We took the insurance angle, for example, very seriously. And so we had supporters with Insure Our Future on the other side of the Atlantic who said, Yes, we want to help you in the Bahamas draw attention to the fact that there may not be adequate insurance for these efforts.
So pulling in the financial and the insurance and the environmental assessments and the policy, we've had great support from Earthjustice in the U. S., and really seeing people come together. For the benefit of the Bahamas and the world ultimately. So I'm very grateful for that. And it's what made this effort possible.

Thomas Hynes: And I'll just mention the website ourislandsourfuture.org. Rashema and Casuarina, thank you so much for being with us today. Casuarina, I've just met you recently. Rashema, I've known you for a few years, but it's just great to speak with [00:37:00] you both again.
And I know our listeners are also equally grateful to have heard from you today. Thank you both so much for being here today 

Rashema Ingraham: Thanks so much, Tom.

Casuarina McKinney-Lambert: Thank you so much, Thomas. It's been great to be on your podcast and thank you for listening.