Equity In Every Drop - A Waterkeeper Alliance Podcast

Thomas Hynes: [00:00:00] My guests today are Godfrey Kitimbo of Lake Kyoga Nile Waterkeeper in Uganda, and Hartwell Carson, the Clean Water Director for Mountain True and former French Broad Riverkeeper in Asheville, North Carolina.

 Godfrey has been the Lake Kyoga, Nile Waterkeeper since 2017, though his love for water springs from much earlier in his life. . Godfrey directed his concern and lifelong love for local waters into action by joining Waterkeeper Alliance.

Hartwell worked as the French Broad River keeper for 20 years before transitioning into Mountain True's Clean Water Director role earlier this year.

Thank you both so much for being here today and for our listeners Godfrey and Harwell actually joining us all the way from Dakar Senegal, where they are attending the Water Keeper Alliance, Africa Regional Summit. Guys, it's so good to see you both. Thank you so much for being here.

Godfrey Kitimbo: Thanks for hosting us. 

Hartwell Carson: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

Thomas Hynes: [00:01:00] Absolutely. I've had the great pleasure of, of speaking to you both and knowing about your work. But for our listeners who maybe don't know, I was hoping you could quickly tell me about yourself and how you got started in these roles.

Godfrey, why don't you go first? 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yes. My name is Godfrey Kitimbo executive director for Kyoga Nile Waterkeeper. I say way back since 2017. And initially we had, uh. any government organization that we, what was voluntary, which is volunteers for community development. We had areas of water and sanitation and environment.

So we desire to see how basically we can get much into environment. So through the website. So Waterkeeper Alliance, we came to be much interested and I applied for, to join the Waterkeeper. So as we joined, it was under Lake Kyoga. So after joining we had opportunity to visit Buffalo. That's in USA for Waterkeeper conference.

During the conference is [00:02:00] how we basically came to get much knowledge and skills waterkeeping and connections with friends, and uh, more, more opportunity too to do much of the water keeping. So it was then that we happened to see this much need for us to fight pollution. So in fighting pollution, we happened to see that Kyoga is supplied by waters from River Nile and much of the pollution came from River Nile.

So in doing that, we happened to extend our area of operation to include River Nile even during the time of application, we mentioned that we need the catchment of Lake Kyoga too. And then that catchment we find River Nile was part of it. And uh, river Nile being so much commercial that Lake Kyoga is too remote.

So we, we had to include River Nile to control the pollution And also we saw the much need because River Nile does a great role to the country of [00:03:00] Uganda. It passes through Sudan, Southern Sudan, , Egypt, Ethiopia, and flows it's water to the Medetarrenean Sea. So we joined the, to change the name of Kyoga to Kyoga Nile

Thereafter , we couldn't do much, but we, during the conference, we had opportunity to meet Hartwell Carson. And he has been the mentor, he has been behind all our endeavors and through the trainings of both the equal training, the biological, and then the

chemical. So he has been visiting us almost every year and supporting us, and we are able to do much what we are doing is through Hartwell Carson 

Thomas Hynes: That's so great to hear. And so you were saying that you, you started off as Lake Kyoga Waterkeeper, but found that the Nile River was actually the source of all the pollution.

So you expanded the name and the jurisdiction. Is that right? 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yes. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And Hartwell, tell me quickly about yourself and the French Broad River keeper [00:04:00] position that you held for 20 years and, and what you do at Mountain True now. 

Hartwell Carson: Yeah, good question. So, I was a outdoor recreation kid I like camping and hiking and paddling, and I didn't necessarily make the link between

the things I enjoyed and protecting those things until I went to some areas that I thought would be pristine. I moved to Montana and I thought this place won't need protecting and it's already pristine and found mine pollution and other sources of pollution impact in And I think that was the moment I was like, all right, if I like to do this stuff I should work waterways

 to protect it for my own interest. But so others can paddle our rivers and fish our rivers and use our rivers to sustain themselves for clean water. So became the French Broad riverkeeper in Asheville have spent 20 years working to, to clean up and protect that waterway.

 And after Hurricane Helene hit last [00:05:00] fall, my organization realized that our issues were much larger than just one river, and we kind of needed somebody focusing on the huge scale cleanup that was ahead of us. So I became the Clean Water Director and we have five riverkeeper programs at Mountain True.

So I'm overseeing those programs and working on the, largely working on Hurricane Helene recovery, trash and pollution issues post storm.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah that Hurricane Helene was so tragic for so many reasons. And, And I, I know we were all gathered together at the um, our last global conference, not the African regional Summit that you guys are at now, but so many waterkeepers and riverkeepers couldn't make it or had to leave early or really were obviously distracted by what was going on at home.

Hartwell Carson: Yeah, I was supposed to be there and I drove to the airport and on the way to the airport I stopped by the river access points and they were already flooded. And this was two days before the hurricane hit. And I sat in the parking lot at the airport [00:06:00] and I thought, maybe this is not the best idea. So changed my flight to the, the day of that big storm and, and thought, oh, I have no problem getting out.

 And I really had underestimated how bad it was gonna be. So airport was closed for a month and we didn't have water for 60 days, but we're recovering and it is been the help of water keepers has been a huge part of that. The North Carolina River Keepers came up and helped us do a bunch of water sampling and that it occurred to me really here in Senegal that the magic of Waterkeeper Alliance is.

Is the connection to your fellow river keepers? And it is what you make of it and the connections that I've made have helped me greatly. And I think that's true for most of us that have gotten involved in taking the time to like make those connections. 

Thomas Hynes: That's so well said. And I in this capacity doing the podcast, and then in my other capacity here, I write a monthly profile of a different Waterkeeper. Last, our most recent was Godfrey. [00:07:00] And I've done about 50 before that, and almost to the person when I ask, what's the best part about being a member of Waterkeeper Alliance, the answer is inevitably some version of other water keepers, or it's being a conference or summit, it's with other waterkeepers, or it's learning from other water keepers and collaborating with them.

 And I see that as a great value add for what we do here. And I, and it's just uh, you know, verified or underlined by what you're saying to that end. I want to talk more about these two waterkeepers that I have here and your friendship and your connection and partnership. I went on Google Earth and found that the French Broad River in North Carolina is about 8,000 miles away from Lake Kyoga and the Nile River in Uganda.

 I understand that you met in Buffalo, New York. But how did you two decide to work together? I'm gonna ask a few questions here, and so I'll set you guys up. Hartwell what brought you to Africa and tell me about some of the projects that you've worked on together. 

Hartwell Carson: Yeah, I met Godfrey's [00:08:00] colleague who works in Togo at a previous conference and I told him I wanted to come visit him and I wanted to help him do a project and I asked him what was important and he said they were working to build wells for people that didn't have access to clean drinking water.

And so we helped him raise some money. He did all the hard work. But we came to witness the well construction. And during that time, I thought. What a great thing and figured that would be kind of a one and done. And on the way out of the well ceremony from the opening of the well, we stopped by another village and we got out and we looked around, we talked to the people, and Kosi who's the river keeper in Togo, said, well, these people also need a well.

 And I thought, okay. And so we went back and helped raise money for that second well and, and then um, I realized the scope was tremendous in Togo. But there were other amazing waterkeepers like Godfrey working in other places. And so when we met him in Uganda, we kind of [00:09:00] expanded our scope of work.

 We were lucky. We've tried to raise money a bunch of different ways and we had just had a concert with George Clinton who's a legend, and we paid to have George Clinton and was super nervous that we wouldn't make them our money back. And it'd be a big flop.

And the day of, we had a huge number of people show up, day of tickets. We raised a ton of money. And so I called Godfrey and said, all right we got enough money to help you. Do something. What do you need help with? 

Thomas Hynes: That's so cool. And, And I, I think you may have mentioned this when we spoke a couple weeks ago, but I forgot that George Clinton plays a part in this story and

I think that just technically makes it a better story. So I want to talk a little bit about you've talked a little bit about you're building wells and then Godfrey, then there's also like there's been, I think you mentioned when we spoke a month ago, that there's like water quality testing skills and knowledge , that you learned at conference and, and subsequently.

Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yeah. During the [00:10:00] time of the conference in Buffalo we learned much about pollution by chemicals and different segmentations and agriculture. We went and visited some areas in, during that time of the conference after which we also came back and we had regional meeting in Nairobi.

More emphasis was on pollution and uh, is from that base that we gained skills. basically professional in fisheries and agriculture by which deals with water. So I had some little knowledge, but I couldn't have much knowledge that I'm gaining and skills in carrying out water tests and that has given me a drive to manage testing of water and writing reports to relevant authorities to take action.

So it was through those training Waterkeeper trainings and basically when he came to Uganda, we had the great, because it was now hands on training, so we tested for [00:11:00] equally where people getting water to drink around the river. Lake Kyoga is one of the most remotest place in Uganda, so totally 

the, the pain the, the schools, the hospital.

People at the learning sites and lake shores and the villages around, they depend pure on on water from the lake. And it's where animals also go for water. So there's a lot of pollution, there's a lot of contaminations. Physical, other areas not have toilets. So like if they feel like they need to escape the waters.

And do that and people the next day come pick water. So we tested and we saw there was a lot of uh, echoes. The bacteria was too much. So it is from that what we try to advise and maybe demarcate places where they should get water from, and then animals also should get water from. But still the movement of the water is not so far from each other.

So all this has been through the Waterkeeper [00:12:00] and uh, Carson when he came and we happened to meet practically with his friend Andy. That's the first time when they came. 

Thomas Hynes: And as I understand, there's also, there was also a boat, right? Is there a boat that French Broad Riverkeeper helped you get your patrol boat?

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yes. Yes. . We are given an engine. So that us in patrol and moving around a movement on water is hard. You get a learning side and behind it is uh, an island maybe, or a penole. So you have to go through the boat easier than on foot or using in means. So the boat has been a major source of transport as well as before COVID, we used to use it as a business to help Waterkeeper run its business. People were hiring the boat for transport when we are not using it, and we could get money to do that. Waterkeeper businesses. And then after [00:13:00] the COVID, there was uh, stop of fishing on the lake

by the Uganda government and they employed the military on the lake so we could not use the boat. The boat stayed and now the boat is down. Otherwise, the boat played a great role for transport and is our work.

Hartwell Carson: So Godfrey told me they needed a boat. And in the business of Waterkeeper, that's super common. I mean, most of us are patrolling our waterways by boat and I patrol the French broad, but it's usually in a canoe probably 14 foot canoe.

And so that's kind of what I had in my head. And we showed up and they were building the boat. And this is probably a 40 foot giant wooden boat. That was very impressive. It was not at all what I had pictured in my mind. But it, it was it was helpful. We went out on the lake on it and it's remote, so you know, getting around from one side of the lake to the other can take forever by car on, on sketchy roads. But the boat was very [00:14:00] helpful. 

Thomas Hynes: it's the second largest lake in Uganda, right?

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yes.

Thomas Hynes: And so, and I'm sorry, so the boat was, you constructed the boat in Uganda. 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yes. 

Thomas Hynes: Okay. I had it in my mind that somehow it traveled from North Carolina all the way to Uganda, which makes probably more sense that it didn't happen that way. 

Hartwell Carson: Yeah. I don't think I knew either. I showed up and we were at the landing and there were these guys, you know. working on this giant boat hammering and painting. And I was like, what are they working on? And Godfrey's like, that's our boat. I was like, oh wow. That is, that's an impressive boat. 

Thomas Hynes: I've seen pictures and it's, it's certainly bigger than a canoe.

And yeah, I think I've seen pictures of the two of you in it. Yeah, it's certainly bigger than a canoe. So we've talked a little bit about how you've met. And we talked a little bit about some of the projects you've worked on and we've talked about the boat that did not go on like you know, I, my mind it like went in an airplane.

I didn't think that the boat sailed from North Carolina to Uganda because of how would that even be? But I thought it, like, was, I don't know what I thought. What you described makes a lot [00:15:00] more sense. But what else do you two have planned? Are there plans in the future for this collaboration, this friendship, this partnership, however you wanna call it?

 Are there things you would like to still achieve. And I guess Godfrey, this is maybe for you, what would you want listeners to know about your work and what, what you need to, to help support it? 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Yeah. You see, as I said before, we have a river and a lake, and river is one of the longest river in the world River Nile, and Lake Kyoga is the second fresh largest river in Uganda. So we are prospective feature is to soon, we are planning to to split it again Lake Kyoga to be taken over by a Waterkeeper that I'm training.

And then uh, I concentrate on River Nile because now River Nile is having a series of challenges, a series of dams are being constructed on River Nile even I think yesterday there was a dam that was commissioned in Ethiopia, on River Nile And [00:16:00] uh, so in Uganda, a lot of series of dams are being constructed

on river nile also and a lot of factories around and the farming activities around Ed sedimentation high also. So restriction of those that vegetation around lake the river is paramount. And also we need to make sure we have a constant patch and the, a constant monitoring of the river and, as your country, Uganda, water pollution is high.

We have a lot of water pollution on Lake Victoria. It's one of the most busiest lake in the country with many factories around, with sewage systems around and uh, settlement around. So 

we, we have a colleague, we've been moving also. I've been training him. He's going to be taking over Lake Victoria, Uganda.

So all that is my effort. We want to make sure that we cover the whole country with water keeping. It makes no sense to, to protect one area [00:17:00] and then affecting the rest of the other areas like Lake Kyoga. Lake River Nile grows its water from River River Nile. River Nile goes its water from Lake Victoria and is the source where it begins from.

So if you don't protect Victoria. And then you said you are protecting Kyoga. Victoria is polluting Nile. Nile is polluting Kyoga and Nile is also polluting like lake Albati. So all that, and we have a lot of activities on Lake, but also we have oil exploration that is taking place. So we are here to get some people on Lake Albati and we make sure those major lakes are covered.

So I'm yet to coordinate with colleagues that I know in the country, meet them, and then at least reach them about the need to have water ways protected. So that's one of my future perspective. And the challenges water keeping in Africa is voluntary, so you have to balance [00:18:00] where to get source of living and then also to

to balance how you do the voluntary work. However, we very much appreciative to the heart that he Harwell has and his endeavor to, to come to us and help us and train us. We just pray and wish if other water keepers could follow suit. I think our fire could ignite the whole, the whole world. And our voice is heard globally.

Hartwell Carson: godfrey's very modest. Since I was the French Broad river keeper for 20 years I knew what the job was and i, I knew how important it was for my area. But then you go and see the work that they do, and it is incredibly inspiring and difficult and under challenging conditions with little to no resources and little to no backing by the government.

And little recourse when you find pollution problems. And the pollutions immense. [00:19:00] The challenges for access to clean water is incredibly daunting and you go to these remote villages, and it's very common to see kids with distended bellies from drinking contaminated water. And it's common to see families cooking their dinner with 

a, a bowl full of dirty water.

 And the work that we do on the French broad is really important, but very few people are dying from access to clean water, if at all. In my watershed, and I think it's quite common where Godfrey lives, that people are dying from lack of access to clean water, but also all the other consequences of getting sick and the loss of productivity and the inability to go to school and do your job.

And the amount of time that women spend fetching water. I mean the problems that Godfrey faces in his community are immense, but it, to me, it all starts with clean water until you can provide people with a reliable source of clean water, it's hard for [00:20:00] them 

to, to pull themselves up out of, out of poverty and make the headway they need to make.

So it's very inspiring and anyone that gets a chance to go should go. 'cause it really kind of changes your outlook on what you have and what the needs are throughout the world.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah, I mean , you paint a real, a real picture there and, and I, I, I can't imagine not being to be there and see it and not being impacted or moved or changed even.

 and Godfrey, I love what you said about the connection of water bodies in not even an abstract way in this, in this real, logistical way So if you want to protect Lake Kyoga, you have to protect the Nile River. And if you wanna protect the Nile River, you have to protect lake Victoria. And then of course, I'm speaking to two water keepers from different parts of the world. But there is also this abstract and vocational connection that you guys are

basically highlighting and showing us here today of you know, the, the work is very different, but there is a connection and there are so many similarities in what you're doing, [00:21:00] even though there's obviously great differences as well. 

 Are there any other construction projects or things that you're, that you have in the future more wells or more or water filtrations or testings? I think you mentioned that Hartwell is there things that you are planning or things you'd like to do?

 I sometimes ask this silly question, like, if you had a magic wand, what would you do? I know that's very silly, but I think it gets to the heart of like, what's your ideal and what's your what's your hope? What would you do? 

Hartwell Carson: No, not silly at all. In fact, I just updated my GoFundMe page for this exact question because uh, we're planning a trip in February and we've been here meeting about it and talking about what we're gonna do and talking with Godfrey about water testing and talking to the river keepers in kasuma Kenya about water testing and water filters.

And I was just looking at pictures Godfrey sent me of, they're currently building two wells in Uganda and they're implementing 50 water filters in schools throughout [00:22:00] Uganda, which Godfrey can tell more about, but there's still a tremendous need for more of that. And so we're hoping to raise money.

We can do more water filters, so these are water filters for say a hundred dollars. You can put a filter in a school and there's probably 2, 3, 4, 5, 600 kids in these schools. And this one $100 water filter will filter water for these kids for 10 years, and they're currently fetching you know, walking half a mile to a mile to get water.

And drinking dirty water at school. And this very simple technology fixes that. And so we're hoping to do more of that and we're hoping to do that 

in, in Kenya too. But we also were talking about some of the pollution problems that Godfrey was mentioning in Lake Victoria and their pipes that the river keepers here have been telling me about.

 The gush pollution, red, blue, green, and. It's hard to get the evidence you need to build the case and get the government to act. And so we're hoping [00:23:00] when I come that 

we can, bring some sample kits, take some water samples, and hopefully use that data to, to get some action. It's kinda like being I think it's a little bit like being a river keeper

maybe in the seventies and eighties when there was some laws on the books, but very little enforcement and a ton of egregious pollution and it's a really, I think, important time to, if you can highlight those problems and you can force action you know, you can make some big change and big improvements.. 

Thomas Hynes: What's so great about what you're saying, I mean, there's, it's all very great, but I mean, you're talking about the $150, well, did you say, could mean clean water for 600 kids at school?

But, and so there's, there's all of these like immediate actions and benefits that can happen. But then you're going a step further with the testing and the data to present that, to say, okay, well this is also going to hopefully stop the problem at the source uh, by bringing this kind of hard science and irrefutable information to decision [00:24:00] makers.

 You hope that they. I mean, you, all you can do is present the data. I guess you can't really make the change yourself, but it won't happen without the data and without the testing. So that's incredibly helpful as well. I'm sure.

Hartwell Carson: I was just talking to, to Mary Beth, who's Waterkeeper deputy director. And you can cut this part out if you like, but she said. River keepers are inherently a bit like juvenile delinquents. And so I was being told a story by the Kasuma river keeper about this factory and they put a pipe in at midnight and they dump all their pollution out at midnight and it goes into Lake Victoria on the Kenya side.

 And they've had a hard time getting enforcement 'cause they can't get the water samples. And so I said, oh, I love that kind of stuff. I love sneaking around and taking water samples and getting enforcement actions. And that was where Mary Beth said, of course you do, your water keepers are a bunch of juvenile delinquents.

 But that that kind of work is exciting and can make a big difference.

Thomas Hynes: Well, I think it's, I think [00:25:00] I wouldn't even, I mean, juvenile delinquent is definitely one way to put it, but I think the, another way to put it, it's just like, I don't know, I mean, I appreciate that feeling of just, I don't want to use curse words here, but calling out bad behavior and just raising your hands and hey, that's not right.

 And speaking truth to power or whatever you know, I, I, however you wanna frame it. I mean I, I think that's probably why I work here as well. Because I, I, you know. yeah. Again, you can't do that. This is our water body and this is bs. I'm abbreviating all these blue language. So, yeah, I mean I think that is a common thread throughout this work. Now I just wanna talk briefly about where you both are today.

 As I mentioned at the top uh, Godfrey and Hartwell are in Dakar, Senegal right now for our African Regional Summit. And we have these regional summits every other year throughout the, you know. six different locations you know, global locations across, across the world. just tell me a little bit about how this has been in light of you saying like this notion that the [00:26:00] best part about water keepers is the connection to other water keepers.

Well, you're all not all there, but there's a number of you there today, in this week in Senegal. How has that been?

Godfrey Kitimbo: Oh yeah. Arrived from my country Uganda on a, on a Monday. And 

uh, we happened , to be received by the host waterkeeper, Mbacké. He took us around, we spent the night around, it took us to Gorry Geo, Gorry Island. It was very marvelous island. . So Tuesday we reported to the conference, hotel, and we had a nice dinner.

The following day we started the classes attending. We've learned a lot about plastics, learned lot about , pollution. We've learned about climate change and how basically the Senegal people are trying to conserve their waters and the fishery part of it is improving. It is social raining.

But for them they have really done much in protecting the fishery industry. And I think they're both supported by the government doing [00:27:00] that. According to the figures, we are keeping on projecting higher. So , that alone has given me how basically I can go home and do the same. And also.

 Basically I can improve on the plastic situations in the country, although our waters are not so much affected by plastic, but here at least we can't rule out a lot of plastic around the lake shores. And then also we have learned much from some government officials from Senegal how supportive they are.

that has been very nice to. To be in the meeting, in the work, the conference, we have connected to many people that we didn't know most especially the African Waterkeeper. Much of the time we have been having a monthly meeting, a Zoom meeting, and a few could attend like six, seven.

This time we are over So that means a lot with, there's a lot of connection and sharing the challenges from each waterkeeper how basically you're managing the other side [00:28:00] and how basically managing the other side. So that's a great plan and a great idea that the alliance came up with also learn about the new vision of the Water Keep Alliance and the strategies and plans and uh, the quality standards that we're supposed to follow up and they call even for licensing. That has been great.

Thomas Hynes: And the host is uh, Mbacké Seck of Han Baykeeper. And he was um, uh, I think our third or fourth guest on this podcast. , Like everybody

we're a big fan of Mbacké , and later today, there's a cleanup, right? Because you can't get water keepers together without doing some kind of uh, in the field. And then, I mean that with all the love in my heart and with admiration, but you literally can't get this group of people together without saying, well, let's go to some body of water and clean it up.

 So you're doing that later today. Is that, on the beach or is that on a river? Where are you headed?

Hartwell Carson: I think it's around a school in Han Bay where Mbacké's been working. And to [00:29:00] me the incredible value of coming here is to meet these guys in person and, 

and hear the challenges they face and hear the potential hurdles to, to getting where they need to go. But it's also seeing the dichotomy of the landscape.

 We went and swam and surfed on some beautiful beaches went out to some islands that were gorgeous, but we also saw mountains of trash and huge sewer discharges straight into the bay where people were swimming. And so to see the challenges that are still there is really helpful.

But then also you talk to Mbacké and he'll put it in perspective of, of how bad it used to be and how far they've come. And so they've done some great work, but there's, there's a lot more to be done. 

Thomas Hynes: yeah. Unfortunately, there's always gonna be more to do in this work. Despite all the progress and great collaborations and partnerships and effective and important work this struggle or fight or battle or whatever you wanna call it just is gonna keep [00:30:00] coming. But thankfully we have such great people all over the world working on this and even

more so not working in silos and the collaboration that the two of you have, as I mentioned, 8,000 miles apart, which is basically a whole world away as far as I can tell. Is so inspiring. And I hope that the people listening to this are as inspired as I am, but I also just hope that it inspires other water keepers or just anybody outside this movement as well, who learn from one another.

Learn about one another. And yeah the, potential and possibilities of these kind of collaborations are so great and you just kind of hope to see more of them.

Hartwell Carson: We're actively raising money to support Godfrey's work and um, the best place to donate to that is clean water for africa.org. We actually started a small nonprofit to support the African River Keepers. We're gonna be working with Godfrey in Uganda.

We're gonna be working with the Lake Victoria Waterkeeper in Kenya and we continue to [00:31:00] support the work of the Riverkeeper in Togo. And honestly I, I love it. You know, I'm here at this conference and there's a dozen people doing amazing work and all I keep thinking is, man, I wish I could help with that project and this other project they're working on.

 the challenges we've seen in Senegal walking down the beach. And seeing a 24 inch sewer pipe gushing sewage in to the waterway and hearing that they've been trying to work on that and fix that, but they hadn't been successful you know, makes you realize how much need there is.

 And being able to come here and, and see it is, is eyeopening. And I encourage anybody that gets a chance to do that, to do it. Just selfishly it's very rare that you get to travel around with somebody like Godfrey who knows the area and to see sites that I think a lot of people don't see and to be introduced in the community as Godfrey's friend is, is um, is a great way to, to see a place. 

And so I'm forever indebted to being able to experience Africa in that [00:32:00] way. 

Thomas Hynes: That's amazing. Yeah. And just, I wanna repeat for everyone listening, that's clean water for africa.org. If you're interested in supporting this amazing work. 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Maybe also it is through such projects that our work becomes easier. Mobilizing the community becomes easy. If, let's say we have a cleanup and you say one cleanup and they see you are installing a filter water filter for them to take water. They become more, much easier to work. They become more realistic to know that the waterways have to be protected.

It is for their own benefit. In some areas, people think if the government has failed to do that, let us also give it up. The government can do not support all people with clean water. It's very expensive building wells in Africa or in Uganda. It's very expensive for the entire year the budget for maybe a district can be two wells and district can have over 2 million people.

So allocation of that two way to, to the [00:33:00] 2 million people becomes hard, most especially now, like there was a recent, we installing wells we have a project that is ongoing on of installing two wells and 50 filters in schools and hospitals. Now, there is a village that was invaded by crocodile and then crocodile we're swallowing up who are going to fetch water, so others are hospitalized.

Others were taken up and there was one that was recovered. If you see the pictures, you can't believe. So now people want water, but now they fear to go to the water ' cause of the crocodiles. So it's really is very, very, very hard situation.

Hartwell Carson: That's the kind of thing I think people in the United States have maybe a hard time wrapping their head around.

I mean, these were folks that were already walking a great distance to fetch contaminated water, and now they're having to worry about crocodile attacks. And the solutions Godfrey's implementing are, are fixing those problems and like I said, literally saving people's lives. And for a hundred dollars you can implement these water filters that we're doing and a [00:34:00] well's about $10,000. And so a little bit can go a long way. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And again, I'm just gonna say it one more time because I think I'll probably be sharing this website around with people I know myself. But that website is clean water for africa.org. And I'm not impartial here because I obviously work in this movement as well and think what you're both doing is so important, but

 my goodness. I mean, I understand that's a lot of money, but it's a huge amount of impact and I, I can't imagine that you could get a bigger impact on helping people's lives than what you guys are talking about. So again I will shamelessly say one more time, clean water for africa.org.

 I could talk to you both all day but I recognize that you had a jam packed conference, and I've been emailing you both all week, I feel like, 10 times a day, and changing the times and working across these time zones because I was so excited to speak to you both, and I didn't wanna miss this opportunity.

But with that in mind, just thank you so much for being here today. But beyond that, [00:35:00] just thank you for the work that you do. And individually, I think it's what you do is so remarkable, but then you take it to this next level when you talk about the collaboration that you're doing. So it's inspiring individually and it's really inspiring collectively.

 And um, yeah, just thank you so much uh, for everything. Thanks for being here and thanks for all you do. 

Hartwell Carson: Thank you Tom We appreciate it. 

Godfrey Kitimbo: Thank you so much.